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forums.flyimc.com : Advanced Instrument Training Forums > Avionics > Garmin 430/530 Forum > Garmin 430/530 Tip: Link to a Garmin Portable GPS |
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rkaplan Administrator 
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Garmin 430/530 Tip: The Garmin 430/530 installation guide shows how to link your Garmin 430 or 530 to a Garmin handheld GPS (195, 196, 295, or 296) through the serial port. This communication link costs no more than $100 to accomplish through most avionics shops and it helps you get much more use out of your Garmin 430/530. |
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Fred Herzner Member
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Richard, What functionality do you gain by connecting a 396 to the 430? |
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Cessnaah Member
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I have linked my 396 to my 430. At Richard's suggestion I also had my avionics shop intall a feed interupt switch in order to do "what if" scenarios on the 396, something not possiible while they are connected, as the 430 feed to the 396 quickly and constantly supercededes any 396 user input. I also have the 396 running to my audio panel in order to get aural terrain information. Both of these work quite well. Unless yiour avionics shop has done a bunch of them, expect to pay more than $100, espeically if your 430 is at the top of the stack as there is a lot of work to wire it in (I assume you will wire the power part of you data/power cable at the same time). |
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rkaplan Administrator
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Fred Herzner wrote: Richard, What functionality do you gain by connecting a 396 to the 430? Hi Fred. The 396 sends the flight plan and active waypoint to the 430. Advantages are: 1. You can see 396 weather and terrain overlayed on the route flight planned in the 430 2. You can use the 396 for data fields for which there is not enough room on the 430, such as ETA or cross-track error or other functions 3. If you have an electrical failure your current route is already loaded 4. The electronic HSI on the 396 tracks your flight and your approaches. Since the electronic HSI shows ground track and not heading, the HSI on the 396 can make it a lot easier to fly in a strong but varying crosswind 5. You can use the 396 to depict a backup GPS-derived glideslope on both IFR approaches and even visual approaches |
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oavalle Member
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Do you know an Avionics shop in around the DC, PA or VA area that has done it. Oscar |
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rkaplan Administrator
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oavalle wrote: Do you know an Avionics shop in around the DC, PA or VA area that has done it. Hi Oscar. O&N Aircraft in Factoryville PA (9N3, near Wilkes-Barre PA) linked my Garmin 296 to my 430. |
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Allan Member
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We are about to install a GNS430 if we can upload user way point to the unit. So far it was not possible to gain this information either from dealer or manuals. This tread seems to indicate it is possible. I was astonished to learn, that planning the flight home uploading it before flight was not a GNS430 standard feature. For one photo mission we are Currently generating about 20 routes incorporating 40 waypoint using Garmin MAPsource PC-programme, then uploading the routes to GPS 296. All can be done comfortably at home. The big question is can the same be done with GNS430 either via GPS 296 or direct from MAPsource? Where may I gain further information about GNS 430 up- and download capabilities? Last edited on Mon Apr 24th, 2006 05:45 pm by Allan |
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rkaplan Administrator
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Hi Allan. The communication between the 430 and the 296 is one way only, from the 430 (or 530) to the 296. There exists no way to program a flight plan at home and then transfer it to the 430 (or 530). Once you enter a flight plan in the 430 or 530, however, it is possible to store it there for future use. -- Richard |
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Allan Member
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Hi Richard Tank you for the information. Do you know of any panel mount GPS that will accept waypoint upload? GNS 480 are prepared for it, this is taken from the spec. sheet: Infrared Interface (currently not enabled, but will be used in the future to send and receive flight plan, TFR, and user waypoint information through PDA with infrared capabilities). Do you got anny information of when this will be realised? Allan Last edited on Mon Apr 24th, 2006 05:46 pm by Allan |
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rkaplan Administrator
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No, I do not know of any panel GPS which will accepted a flight plan from an external source. You are correct that supposedly this will be a future enhancement to the 480. That said, is it that common for you to know of a complex flight plan routing in advance? If the routes are that predictable, why not just program them into your GPS sometime and store them? Or if these are VFR photo missions that you design in advance, why not just use your 296 for navigation? |
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Allan Member
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For years we have been using 296 and 295 for complex navigation, but many of my pilots find it tiresome and hard to stick to the track within +- 200 ft for hours (not to mention his eyes are mainly on the needle and mine on the photo equipment). The idea is that 430 can be coupled to the auto pilot, 296 presumably not. With 430 it will take several hours to punch in a specific missions co-ordinates of say 40 user waypoints followed by creating 20 routes. Last edited on Mon Apr 24th, 2006 05:50 pm by Allan |
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rkaplan Administrator
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Allan wrote:
I can understand that logic although even if you could put the data into a panel-mount GPS many autopilots (even with GPSS) will have a tough time staying with 200 feet of track especially with significant winds aloft or with frequent turning points. Interestingly the 296 has the advantage of an electronic HSI which depicts track rather than heading. In many ways this makes it easier to fly with the level of precision you need for this mission. How about flying the mission with the autopilot in heading mode and with the pilot doing VFR navigation primarily with the main nav page of the 296 set up to show both the map and the electronic HSI? I think this is a very doable workload for the pilot which will yield the degree of navigational accuracy you are seeking. |
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resca Member
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It is correct: OFFICIALLY it is not possible to upload User Waypoints and/or routes to a 430. In the nreal world, that is technically possible, while both 430/530 have a Crossfill feature that allows the units to send Waypoints and Rotes between units. It works on Serial 3, simple RS232 on the big connector (DB-78 J4001) so any PC could connect there and simulate to be an already-filled-up 430 that wants to crossfill the real one. The only probem is that Garmin doesn't disclose the protocol used there! I asked several times with no luck. May be a lot of pressure can lead to the inclusion of the 430/530 in Mapsource manageable units. By the way, I am looking to a cuple of units to be crossconnected on my bench to sniff the protocol... that was my job for yerars and I could be successfull, unless a sort of encryption has been used. Shold someone heve additional info, at least on the very low level (speed, databits, parity, basic protocol), that is welcome! |
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ecloebl Member
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rkaplan wrote: Fred Herzner wrote:Richard, What functionality do you gain by connecting a 396 to the 430? How do you set that up (the GS)? Alternatively, is it in the 396 manual? Last edited on Thu Apr 20th, 2006 10:11 pm by ecloebl |
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rkaplan Administrator
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ecloebl wrote: How do you set that up? Alternatively, is it in the 396 manual? To set up a GPS-derived glideslope on the 396 when not crossfed from the 430/530: 1. Press Menu Twice 2. Choose Setup - VNAV 3. Set the VNAV Target settings to: 0.0 feet Above Waypoint 0.0nm 4. Set Descent profile to 600fpm or other value appropriate for your plane (be conservative on the high side to get a slightly steeper glidepath which will give you a margin of error for winds 5. Load an approach using the 396 internal approach database 6. Press MENU MENU and go back to Setup-VNAV to confirm that the VNAV waypoint is the runway threshold 7. The glideslope will appear on the electronic HSI when you are inbound and the vertical speed to target is between 400 FPM and 800 FPM, i.e. when you have not pegged the glideslope up or down. ----------------------------------------- To set up a GPS-derived glideslope on the 396 when you are crossfed from the 430/530: 1. Press Menu Twice 2. Choose Setup - VNAV 3. Set the VNAV Target settings to: TDZE feet Above MSL [Where TDZE is touchdown zone elevation] 0.0nm 4. Set Descent profile to 600fpm or other value appropriate for your plane (be conservative on the high side to get a slightly steeper glidepath which will give you a margin of error for winds 5. Load an approach using the 403/530 internal database 6. Press MENU MENU and go back to Setup-VNAV to confirm that the VNAV waypoint is the runway threshold 7. The glideslope will appear on the electronic HSI when you are inbound and the vertical speed to target is between 400 FPM and 800 FPM, i.e. when you have not pegged the glideslope up or down. Please note that this is an emergency or backup procedure ONLY. It is based upon GPS altitude and rate of descent calculations and NOT based upon a true glideslope. It is susceptible to GPS altitude error and wind errors among other sources of error. It has NOT been flight-tested to be accurate. You should be sure WAAS altitude correction is turned on in the system setup page. These disclaimers aside, it works quite well as a backup and in an emergency. Note as well that Garmin disables this glideslope feature below 500 feet AGL. |
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ecloebl Member
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Thank you! Now how about the GS for a visual approach as you mentioned above? |
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rkaplan Administrator
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ecloebl wrote: Thank you! Now how about the GS for a visual approach as you mentioned above? Same as above except instead of loading an approach: 1. Enter the airport as the active waypoint (i.e. DIRECT KWAY) and under VNAV setup verify the airport is the VNAV waypoint 2. Go to the panel page and press MENU 3. Choose "Set OBS and Hold" 4. Press the arrow until your HSI course is set to runway heading |
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Allan Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 07:54 am How about flying the mission with the autopilot in heading mode and with the pilot doing VFR navigation primarily with the main nav page of the 296 set up to show both the map and the electronic HSI? Hi Richard That is what we are doing for the moment with the 296 set up to show both the map and the electronic HSI. So no point in investing in a 430 as the GPS part seems to be less versatile than the 296. The idea was manually to intercept the track and let the 430/autopilot stick to it. Although I have no 430/autopilot experience, I believe it will stick to the track better than manual. We always fly these missions in excellent weather with low wind. Well.. Richard, I see you have both 430 and 296 installed, so maybe you could let me know how well 430/autopilot stick to a GPS track. The 296 will record the flight, and the trackrecord may be downloaded to MAPSource for analyse. Using CPL I rated pilots I'm amazed how different their abilities are to intercept and stick to a track. My best pilot are able to intercept less than 0.5 NM before the mission point, established within +-200 ft, (100 mph, pulling Gs). The average pilots needs more than three times as much and may still be hunting down the track. Anyhow they all find it great fun and a challenge to fly the missions. But the best are leaving for the airline industry. Last edited on Mon Apr 24th, 2006 05:48 pm by Allan |
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Allan Member
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Shold someone heve additional info, at least on the very low level (speed, databits, parity, basic protocol), that is welcome! Hi resca GARMIN protocol can be found here, panel mount included: http://www.garmin.com/support/commProtocol.html If you have 430 on the bench, try to connect it to your PC and see if MAPSource will upload waypoints. Keep us updated on your efforts. Last edited on Mon Apr 24th, 2006 05:49 pm by Allan |
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resca Member
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I know quite well that document, while I wrote myself some utilities to manage waypoints and routes in the handhelds. I must admit I never believed and never noticed it should be used even for panel mount. Be sure I will try something: MapSource or even writing some code to handle waypoints. The only problem it will take some TIME: immagine I have to build the bench, power-supply (a good one - I don't want to burn a 430!) and... very hard: to find one DB78 High Density male connector  Giuliano |
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rkaplan Administrator
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Allan wrote: Well.. Richard, I see you have both 430 and 296 installed, so maybe you could let me know how well 430/autopilot stick to a GPS track. The 296 will record the flight, and the trackrecord may be downloaded to MAPSource for analyse. I do not have GPSS so for sure I can be more accurate making turns to a new course in heading mode instead of NAV mode. I think you are probably right that comparing a GPSS mode to a pilot turning a heading bug, the question of which is more accurate probably depends upon the pilot. I suspect that if you zoom in the map on the 296 however to an extremely close-in scale (i.e. 1/2 mile scale) then that would increase the accuracy of your pilots flying this by manually turning a heading bug connected to the autopilot. |
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Allan Member
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Yes Richard that is what we are doing. and by changing 296 HSI CDI full scale deflection from 5 NM to 0.25 NM we achieve track precision of +- 200 ft. Still it would be nice to upload waypoints to 430 and let the autopilot do the work. Lets hope resca will find a way. Last edited on Tue Apr 25th, 2006 12:58 pm by Allan |
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railpass Member
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rkaplanwrote: 1. You can see 396 weather and terrain overlayed on the route flight planned in the 430I would LOVE to see what that looks like on a 430 or 530. Any chance you could post a photo? |
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rkaplan Administrator
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railpass wrote: I would LOVE to see what that looks like on a 430 or 530. Any chance you could post a photo? To be honest, weather on the 430 or 530 (i.e. the GDL69) looks awful. I do not recommend it. The best platforms to display weather are multi-function displays (i.e. an Avidyne EX500 which is my personal favorite or else the old Garmin MX20 which is soon to be the Garmin GMX200). The Garmin 396 does an excellent job of depicting weather as well and is a great value as well especially at its new retail price of $2,195. But while I love the Garmin 430/530 as GPS units, I think most pilots who try to display weather on the 430/530 are very disappointed while those who use the 396 or an MFD are much happier. |
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railpass Member
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That makes sense when I think about the 430/530 displays themselves. I think they can only do 16 colors or some such limited amount. I have a KMD 550, which doesn't appear to be the world's most versatile MFD. Too bad I couldn't put the 396 on the KMD - now that would be pretty cool. Last edited on Fri Jun 16th, 2006 03:43 am by railpass |
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AlecThigpen Member
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>"I do not have GPSS so for sure I can be more accurate making turns to a new course in heading mode instead of NAV mode. I think you are probably right that comparing a GPSS mode to a pilot turning a heading bug, the question of which is more accurate probably depends upon the pilot. I suspect that if you zoom in the map on the 296 however to an extremely close-in scale (i.e. 1/2 mile scale) then that would increase the accuracy of your pilots flying this by manually turning a heading bug connected to the autopilot."< I use the heading bug and autopilot, with the 196, or now the 496, on map page with HSI to fly my maps. I use the 0.25 sensitivity, and can easily hold a 200 foot tolerance. If you use the course projection line feature, you can put the extension line on the far end of the flight line and it is nailed. The autopilot is following the bug, altitude hold is engaged and all is well. I have tried with setting up the flight lines on the 530 with GPSS and the GPSS turns are too slow, the system tries to lock in a heading but isn't as precise as doing it by hand and then engaging the autopilot. You would have to fly 4 or 5 miles past the start point to even have a chance of settling in to the path in time. That is lots of wasted air time. The autopilot just spends too much time hunting for the exact course using the 530 and GPSS. |
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